Dialogue with an atheist

Dialogue with an atheist

by sheikh Al-ghazali

This is a dialogue between sheikh Mohammed Al-ghazali and an atheist. the sheikh, may Allah have mercy on him, published it in his book “qaza'ef al-haq” (righteousness projections).

The dialogue narrated by al-ghazali 

He can observe the creations of the almighty creator manifested in plants, flowers and fruits. he can see how the dark hard soil cracks to bring out the bright and pale colors flourishing on leaves and branches of trees that are rich with basils and jasmines. he can also see how everything is harvested and turned into clothes, food for people and animals. then, ruins and rubbish become new beautiful plants varied in taste and look, filling the fields and gardens. who created all these?

My companion answered without much reason as if he is drunk: The land created them.
i said:The land ordered the sky to rain, the sun to rise, the leaves to store carbon and produce oxygen, the grains to contain fat, sugar, odor and starch??
he said:i mean nature in the earth and the sky.


i said:The earth, sky and what is between all cooperated to create each grain in the rice dish in your lunch, then what is the role of each component in this creation? who is responsible to make apples sweet and pepper hot, is it the soil of the earth or the rain of the sky?
he said:I don’t know and knowing is worthless.


i said:Does not it need a mind to plan and a will to sort? where is the mind that created and the will that changed the manure piles or the beams?

he said:The world was developed according to evolution and we do not know the source or details.


i said:I will explain to you what you are saying! you are saying that long time ago, there were a number of blind disordered elements scattered in the universe, then with the passage of time and constant meeting, these elements had a unique chance that will never reoccur. a primitive living cell emerged then it reproduced rapidly and developed into the world we see today!! this is the ignorance that you called science, and you are not embarrassed of insisting on facing the world boldly with it!! you are saying that complicated mathematical calculations were solved automatically. you are saying that fine, tiny and great creatures have lives because of a chance they seized and it will never come back!! this is just to escape from believing in the great creator.

he said enraged:If there were a creator as you said, would the world be filled with tragedies and pain like today? would we have seen obscene richness enjoyed by idiots and strangling poverty suffered by smart people? would we have seen sick children who die and disfigured people who live in pain?


i said:Now i know that what i expected is right. your disbelief is due to psychological and social problems more than important intellectual issues!!
there are people who believe or disbelieve according to what confronts them whether hardship or ease. almighty Allah says: “and among mankind is he who worships Allah as it were, upon the very edge (i.e. in doubt); if good befalls him, he is content therewith; but if a trial befalls him, he turns back on his face (i.e. reverts back to disbelief after embracing islam). he loses both this world and the hereafter. that is the evident loss.” (al-hajj: 11)

he said:We are not selfish as you describe us. we do not feel angry or content according to our own circumstances only. we just look into the circumstances of people and then we issue our judgment that you refuse now...


i said:Your problem is that you do not know the nature of the present life or the functions of people in it. it is a temporary transition to the final destination. so, the present life is a passageway, and in order to cross it to one of the two conclusions, the human has to experience tribulations that would polish his metal and discipline his habits. tribulations are various and diverse, and when the believers succeed in overcoming the obstacles filling their passageway, keeping their relation to Allah clear no matter how many difficulties and distresses they face, they will return to almighty Allah who will say to them: “my worshippers! no fear shall be on you this day, nor shall you grieve” (az-zukhruf: 68)
he said:What is the point of this tribulation?


i said:The person may stay awake for nights for knowledge and science acquisition. his body might sweat asking for rest after exerting a lot of efforts, but he keeps struggling to achieve his aim. big posts are usually given to the experienced people who faced difficulties and succeeded in dealing with them. if this is the prevailing law in the present life on earth, why is it strange then if it is the right struggle for the expected immortality?

he answered sarcastically:Is this your philosophy to justify the tragedies that happen in people's lives to make people forbear them?


i said:I will tell you – in detail – about the evils you complain about. these pains are divided into two sections: one is destined by Allah to occur in the present life, it is part of it and the message of the human is not complete without experiencing theses pains and tests. it is as abbas al aqad explained: “a solidarity between the parts of the universe, as there is no meaning of bravery without danger, no generosity without need, no patience without hardships and no virtue without vice that opposes and illustrates it .. “this can be applied on our sensual pleasures, and on our psychological and intellectual needs. we do not know the pleasure of being full unless we endure hunger, we do not feel sodden unless we experience thirst. we would not enjoy a beautiful scene unless it is in our nature to be disturbed by an ugly one”.. this explanation of the nature of the present life also includes the fact that almighty allah tests each person of what concords with his nature and what agrees with his personality and environment. people vary to a great degree; a person might scream complaining of what might not bother another at all. Allah has a divine reason for putting his creations into such adversities. what is important is that the incidents of the private and public life is ruled according to a comprehensive frame of doubtless divine justice. the second section of evils that you complain about is your fault and the fault of devious people like you.

he said with dismay: I and my likes have nothing to do with the chaos in the world? how can you accuse us of being the reason?


i said:No, you are responsible for it. almighty Allah puts a good system for the world; it is as system that guarantees its happiness and balance. it is a system in which the strong is to help the weak, the rich to aid the poor. Allah warns against following desires, committing oppressions and transgressing boundaries and rights. Allah promises the goodness of the present life and the hereafter to the ones who adheres to this system: “whoever works righteousness, whether male or female, while he (or she) is a true believer (of islamic monotheism) verily, to him we will give a good life (in this world with respect, contentment and lawful provision), and we shall pay them certainly a reward in proportion to the best of what they used to do (i.e. paradise in the hereafter).” (an-nahl: 97) so, if people violate the boundaries, cut what Allah ordered them to link, cooperate to do evil instead of goodness, then how come they complain about harvesting what they planted? most of the evils surrounding the world are due to going astray and not following the right path. almighty allah says in the qur’an: “whosoever desires (with his deeds) the reward of the hereafter, we give him increase in his reward, and whosoever desires the reward of this world (with his deeds), we give him thereof (what is written for him), and he has no portion in the hereafter. and whatever of misfortune befalls you, it is because of what your hands have earned. and he pardons much.” (ash-shura: 30)

Abu bakr al-siddiq marched an army to fight the tribes that refused to pay zakat after the death of the prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him). his decision was right because this way he asserted the rights of the poor, curbed selfishness and reinforced islam. when other rulers do not follow Abu bakr, then how come critics blame predestinations for causing miseries in life?! 

He said: What do you mean?

I said: I mean that Allah’s laws are enough to relief people, but instead of blaming who suspended them you have the nerve to dare the creator by accusing his religion and orders.
some people are mean by cursing heavens if the earth is corrupt. they should do their duty in forming chaos and asserting righteousness and stop babbling unjust words about religion and almighty Allah. 

You, materialists, are sick and your consciousness and thoughts need extensive treatment.
i asked myself after this long dialogue: diseases are about to become epidemics, do we have people to cure the wounds and treat diseases or the problems we have in muslim preacher will remain suffocating?
source: “qaza'ef al-haq” (righteousness projections)

Agnostic Contentions: Randomness and Infinity

by Shaykh Abu Adam al Naruiji

(original source : http://sunnianswers.wordpress.com/2008/05/27/agnostic-contentions-randomness-and-infinity/)

An agnostic said: How do you see the randomness in Quantum Physics then, why does a atom decaying for no reason not equate to the universe being random as well?

Answer: The randomness spoken of in Quantum Physics does not contravene the fact that there is order, such as animals, plants, and the solar system, and developments over time. It also does not contravene the fact that the so called physical laws, even if they are incomplete, give the world around us a high degree of predictability. Events that happen for no apparent “reason,” could be because we do not know them. Even if we assumed they did not, however, this is not problematic in the Islamic Creed, as I will show you shortly.

In any case, let it be clear from the outset that the issue of cause is a metaphysical question, more than a physical question, because the assertion of cause is based on observed correlation, not that the cause itself can be observed. In short, if there is correlation, and there is an explanation for it, then it is called “cause.” So for example, if one finds that objects attract each other always, then one says that if a glass falls from the table, it is “caused” by gravity. Gravity itself, however, has no verifiable existence in itself, it is assumed to be there, because that bloody glass always falls when it is moved off the edge of the table. This is just an example, I am not saying that scientists all believe that gravity always holds true.

On the other hand, if the pattern of something is totally unpredictable, then people start saying it is “random.” This is what is meant when they say that the quark’s pattern (the element spoken of in Quantum Physics, which is supposedly the subpart of the electron, which is a subpart of the atom) is random. They mean that it’s pattern has no physical explanation; that there is no observed event or condition that somehow makes the quark’s pattern predictable.

Maybe physics, with its tools and methodologies, can prove the non-existence of cause, maybe it cannot, it is not important. The reason is that it can be proved not to exist by proving the existence of a creator, by whom nothing happens except by His Will. This proof is based merely on the existence of events, which is anything that has a beginning. It does not matter if they have apparent order or not, or whether they are contingent or not. I will get back to that when I address your next question.

An agnostic said: My point being that if the universe had no beginning, what purpose then for a creator? Since in an infinite model the universe sustains itself.

Answer: The universe absolutely must have a beginning, so this is not an issue. I will show you why:

Premise a – We exist here today.

Premise b – Before we existed there were a series of events, one after another, leading up to our existence today. (The passing of such a series of events is what we call time, and measure in minutes, days, weeks and years.)

If one accepts premise a, then one must also accept that the series of events in premise b must have a beginning. This must be, because if someone claims that an infinite succession of events had to be concluded before his existence, then he is saying that that infinite succession of events came to an end, which is a contradiction in terms. It is like if someone said “this car will only get to its destination after its wheels have spun infinitely many times,” and then claimed that the car arrived at its destination. It is clear, however, that the car could never have gotten to its destination if an infinite number of spins was the condition for its arrival.

Those who claim that the world has no beginning are in fact saying that it is a prerequisite for tomorrow to arrive that an infinite number of events first take place. This is impossible, because infinity cannot end. Clearly then, the number of events that precedes our existence must have a limit.

In addition, since it is necessarily true that this series of events has a beginning, then it must also be that before this beginning there were no series of events (defined as anything with a beginning). If someone claimed otherwise, then they would end up with the same contradiction (saying that infinity came to an end). Accordingly, the claim that the world was created by random events is irrational.

Rather, there must be a Creator that gave the series of events existence – since it was nonexistent before it began. Moreover, since it is impossible for there to be any events before the existence of this series, then it must also be that the Creator is not attributed with events, i.e. with any attribute or action that has a beginning. This again means that the Creator does not resemble His creation, since all created attributes must have a beginning. Actually, having a beginning and being a creation is the same thing. This is because to create is to bring into existence, and everything with a beginning must have been brought into existence.

We know from the above, by mathematical precision and logical necessity, that the Creator exists and does not resemble His creation. From the fact that the world has a beginning, we have proven that it must have a creator. The name of this creator is Allah in Arabic. If someone asks, “Who created Allah?” we say Allah does not have a creator, and does not need one as He has no beginning. If someone then asks, “how can you accept that Allah has no beginning, while you do not accept that the world has no beginning?” The answer is that we have shown that the world has a beginning based on the fact that it changes (changes are events). We do not believe, however, that Allah changes. Rather, we believe He is One, and doesn’t change and has no beginning.

From all this we can also safely conclude that Allah has a will to specify events, and unlimited power to create them. We can also conclude that He must have knowledge, because specification without knowledge is impossible. It is now easy to see also, that no event can take place without Him willing it. This again means that there is no such thing as real cause, in the sense of one event truly influencing or shaping a subsequent event. There is only correlation, because if an event happens, it’s form can only be completely subjugated to Allah’s Will and Power. All of this is according to the teachings of Islam, as is shown by the following statements in the Quran:

“هُوَ الأَوَّلُ”

“He is Al-Awwal.” (Al-Hadiid, 03).”

If translated literally, it would be “He is the First,” i.e. He existed before everything else, and He was not preceded by non-existence or the existence of something else. It is a beginning-less and necessary existence, and is not affected by anything, since it is not preceded by anything.

“إِنَّ اللَّهَ عَلَى كُلِّ شَيْءٍ قَدِيرٌ”,

Meaning: “Verily Allah is able to create anything.” (Al-Baqarah, 20)

“وَخَلَقَ كُلَّ شَيْءٍ وَهُوَ بِكُلِّ شَيْءٍ عَلِيمٌ”

Meaning: “Allah created everything, and He knows everything.” (Al-’Anˆaam, 101)

“وَخَلَقَ كُلَّ شَيْءٍ فَقَدَّرَهُ تَقْدِيرًا”

Meaning: “And He created everything and predestined it.” (Al-Furqaan, 2)

Based on the above, we can say that if the pattern of quarks truly have no observable correlating event that makes it predictable, and is thus labeled “random,” it is either because Allah has not willed for it to have a correlating event, or because He has not willed for it to be discovered.